So I want to be a "Christian" filmmaker?

[Celeste Thoms]

Growing up I’ve always been taught that if you didn’t bring someone to Christ we were not going to get our crown of gold in heaven. Whatever that means, but I knew that I didn’t want to be the only person in heaven without a crown or worse not make it to heaven at all because I did not fill a quota. I read and prayed and I watched to see how people converted others to Christianity so I can do the same. However, all I saw was a lot of people offended by someone trying to convert them, someone saying that the way they live is wrong and the only way to live is in Christ. This offends people. No one wants a stranger telling them, “in the name of Jesus your whole life is a lie”.

Then I wanted to become a filmmaker. What can a filmmaker do to help convert people? I couldn’t help it though. I constantly found myself with a camera or a film book learning whatever I could learn. I stayed up late to watch late night movies and I would say in my heart that’s what I wanted to do. Again, I struggled because I felt that no respecting Christian who was supposed to spend their lives converting people would not be a filmmaker. I said these things to myself as I said “action!” to my next shot. In making my movies I was were I was supposed to be, I felt comfortable. Then I yelled “cut!” and the questions came back.

In trying to understand these two worlds I finally found a way for them to merge somewhat successfully. Writers write what they know, painters paint their vision of the world, and musicians play the sounds of their heart. As a Christian I can do nothing but put my beliefs in my films. Still, no one wants you to talk about God. It’s a sensitive subject. Again, the rule is God is supposed to show you how wrong you are and Satan is supposed to show you how to be yourselves. At least that seems to be the rule. At least that’s why people don’t want you talking about God. Although, Jesus never taught and lived this way on Earth so I don’t know where this rule came from.

I decided to go study film at a Christian institution to “figure” myself out. Maybe learn how to make a Christian film. Maybe even make a Passion of the Christ 2. This time they all speak in Hebrew and the disciples whip out some nunchucks on those soldiers. In my journey I never got that I should make duplicates of Passion of the Christ. I still wonder that it meant for me to be a Christian filmmaker and as such what I should be saying in my work.
Then I traveled to a film festival in California where I was to receive my answer. A Christian screenwriting said that we are NOT here to CONVERT people. That is not our job. That’s the job of the Holy Spirit, and if we try to convert people we are trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit. This writer went on to say that WE are here to PLANT SEEDS not convert. When we plant the seeds, the Holy Spirit will come and change the hearts of people.
Okay, two things: 1. Why didn’t anyone tell me this before and 2. A huge weigh was lifted off my shoulders. It’s not my responsibility to convert. I’m not God and it’s not my job. Besides I’m sure God can do a much better job at it than me. However, seeds I can plant, that I can do.
If you read The Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13: 1- 9 you can also read from a biblical stand point that this is all we are meant to do. You will also learn that you will plant seeds and they may not always grow to be something, but we should still plant them because that seed could yield a crop a hundredfold.

If you are a filmmaker or an artist that wants to place a message in your work do it knowing that you are planting the seed for someone watching your work. You may never know how that seed will grow, but maybe when you get your crown of gold you will finally see how full your tree has bloomed.

[MIke]

Fist off nice reply Thomas, much more thought went into it and it's better written than any of my posts. I think we probably agree on a lot of things, I'm just going to pick out a couple of ideas out of your reply.

If audio-visual media is the most powerful tool to reach and change minds, then why are we not using it more effectively?

I think that the idea that film or video is somehow the most powerful medium is potentially a very flawed way of thinking. I remember throughout my undergrad experience I kept hearing that and thinking why. The best answer that I got was that it engages the most senses. I have never known anyone (and I may be in the minority here) that has changed their fundamental ways of thinking or what they truly believe or how they behave because of a film. Speaking personally, books and music are much more powerful, they awaken and engage my imagination while most film suppresses and dulls it (particularly mainstream fiction cinema). Why are there only one or two films that live up to the book? I think that believing that film is the most powerful art or medium or whatever would be an arrogant way of thinking as filmmakers.

"audio-visual media IS changing the world, and mostly for the worse.
This is not an opinion, but a well recognized fact, that is why corporations spend billions on advertising on TV and at movie theatres!"

I don't know that audio-visual media is changing the world for the worse, I think that's an opinion that could be very successfully argued either way. I would say that the idea that audio-visual medis is changing the world is an opinion, and second I would say that that is not why corporation spend billions of dollars on advertising, tv, and film. They spend those billions because they recoup tens of billions. It's all about the bottom line, not changing the world. It only takes one person to change the world, Ghandi, Dr. King, etc., but I have yet to run into a film that has anywhere near the impact that one person can have.

[Thomas]

All good points Mike, so let's take a look at your thinking on this, OK?

"I guess the question then becomes...What impact can a film actually have?"

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in people'sminds."
Samuel Adams


I'll let my previous comments suffice to answer this, its not rocket science or vague, audio-visual media IS changing the world, and mostly for the worse.

This is not an opinion, but a well recognized fact, that is why corporations spend billions on advertising on TV and at movie theatres!

God speaks to us through our minds, he does not by pass our thought processes, force our wills, or use some supernatural power to change our minds, but insteads appeals to our logic and reasoning. ["..come, let us reason together,..."] t

The supernatural comes in to play after we decide to accept that power into our lives.

If audio-visual media is the most powerful tool to reach and change minds, then why are we not using it more effectively?

The early protestants did, the Millerite Adventists did, they were the pioneers of visual media to get their points across and Ellen White said that this would be very important in the final work on earth.

Fortunately the rocks still cry out along the highway to hell, films such as LUTHER or AMAZING GRACE, or dare I say THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN [cool Orlando Bloom film on the Crusades, made a big impact, Ridley Scott threw a rock down a dark alley and hit something, the establishment mullahs of the popular neocon churches who howled really loud!] and those who had halfway open minds got their outlook on the world changed, or at least disturbed enough to possibly jumpstart the thinking process.


"I think that perhaps the biggest impact you can hope for from a film is to get a few people thinking. "

Exactly my point, this is more important then most think!

“There are two great classes of men: the people and the scholars, the men of science. For the former, nothing exists but that which directly leads to action. It is for the latter to see beyond. They are the free artists who create the future and its history, the conscious architects of the world.”
Johann Gottlieb Fichte, German philosopher & metaphysician


"Maybe they'll change their lifestyle a small amount and positively impact themselves or people around them."

Happens all of the time.

"I have trouble with the idea of "converting" someone with a film, I don't know if you can or can't do that. I think becoming a Christian has to be a very organic experience, ..."

I think Celeste got this right, you and I do not convert anyone, God does, we just plant seeds in their minds, use the tools available to us to open up minds and start the thinking process which the devil and his minions have worked so hard to subvert and stop.


"...can you do that with a film? I don't know, but I have my doubts."

Of course not.

"On a completely different topic that was touched upon by Thomas. The impact of protestantism has no doubt been great, but it really is just reformed Roman Catholicism is it not?"

Correct to a certain degree. The Reformation, which was preceded by the Renaisance, was the beginning of the liberation of the mind of man which satan had held in bondage for centuries through his most effective servant, the Roman Church. That is why it was called the "dark ages".
Independent thought had been nearly destroyed, sciences and the arts had stagnated, and spirituality had been replaced by ceremony and form.

The Reformation was the BEGINNING of the liberation process, Christianity had begun its journey back to the principles of Heaven and what Jesus had taught while on this earth.

Sure, the Protest-ants had not shaken off every ideal of the Romanist church, it was the beginning though, and just the truth that they did embrace changed the world radically.

If it were not for the Reformation, there would have never been the American Republic, no technilogical advances, no free thinking, no liberty of spiritual thought, the only enlightenment we would enjoy would be the fires of the stake, which would still be burning brightly to light up our towns, and the torture chambers would be hard at work converting reluctant souls. [If you want to see what is in store for real Christians when the dark ages return, take a look at what our would be masters of the universe are doing in this field today to keep us safe from terrorism.]

Its a matter of history and fact, the Reformation changed our world and fmade it a little better place to live, although forces have been at work to "counter" the Reformation and bring mankind back down to slavery.

Ellen White said that it was the job of the Adventist movement to finish "..the arrested Reformation" and we made a agreat start at this, but it seems to have bogged down in the same old, same old; tradition and not getting rid of ideas that come straight out of the dark ages.
Don't get me going on this though, another time.

"In general, including the SDA "church" (i put church in quotes because I have trouble using that word when referring to things other than people (and yes I have been accused of being an elitist when it comes to some things)), protestantism has not been able to shake the pagan and greco-roman influence that has shaped much of what would be considered the "church" today. "

Right on brother!

All I have to say is don't let the fear of man, church leaders, or what have you, stop the thinking process, or seeing reality. If the Emperor has no clothes, say it!

Film makers are artists, and artists are by nature progressive thinkers, not in bondage to the matrix or artifical landscape established by the masters of power of this world. We think outside of the box, and resent anyone trying to curb or stop us from questioning things that don't seem right.

God will use that creative energy, something that Ellen White said was part of the image of God in man, the power to create, to free the minds of humanity through the creative arts.

God has been using that power He gave us for centuries, let's not quit now!

“Men fear thought more than they fear anything else on earth — more than ruin, more even than death. Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habits; thought is anarchic and lawless, indifferent to authority, careless of the well-tried wisdom of the ages ...But if thought is to become the possession of many, not the privilege of the few, we must have done with fear. It is fear that holds men back — fear lest their cherished beliefs should prove delusions, fear lest the institutions by which they live should prove harmful, fear lest they themselves should prove less worthy of respect than they have supposed themselves to be.”

Bertrand Russell (Principles of Social Reconstruction)

[MIke]

I guess the question then becomes...What impact can a film actually have? I think that perhaps the biggest impact you can hope for from a film is to get a few people thinking. Maybe they'll change their lifestyle a small amount and positively impact themselves or people around them. I have trouble with the idea of "converting" someone with a film, I don't know if you can or can't do that. I think becoming a Christian has to be a very organic experience, can you do that with a film? I don't know, but I have my doubts.

On a completely different topic that was touched upon by Thomas. The impact of protestantism has no doubt been great, but it really is just reformed Roman Catholicism is it not? In general, including the SDA "church" (i put church in quotes because I have trouble using that word when referring to things other than people (and yes I have been accused of being an elitist when it comes to some things)), protestantism has not been able to shake the pagan and greco-roman influence that has shaped much of what would be considered the "church" today.

[Thomas]

OK, let's talk about budgets, is it a waste to spend millions to produce audio-visual media???? [...or the same goes for building churches,]

I think the answer lies in what impact does it have.

Let me explain, I've said this before to my film crews, and to the medical doxtors who are funding our current TV program production.

The world out there is spending big money to get their ideas across to the masses, to capture their minds by captivating their senses and using audio-visual media, the most powerful communication method in the universe, to win hearts and minds and change their lives.

Of course what they are doing is to make the lives of people miserable, and lead them down the path to physical, emotional, and spiritual destruction.

Now Jesus came into this world to save us from eternal death and from the miserable, self destructive life-style that comes from being out of harmony with divine principles of living.

Once we connect with the divine life, are changed by divine power that begins a process of changing our whole outlook, and freeing us from being enslaved to the principle of selfish love and self worship [which is worship of the Luciferian principles of life,] then it becomes natural to want to help others to connect up with Jesus and have their lives changed.

God gives all of us talents that make us useful in this world [and I am not talking about just what you do in a church environment, such as Sabbath school teacher, social committee leader, etc,] a productive member of the society we live in.

Heaven forbid, some of us are artists. But without them, the earthly sanctuary would not have been built either.

Anyway, now what justifies a big budget media production? Simple, athe world spends big bucks to produce really cool TV and movies that have a very strong effect, they are capturing the world, the people's minds, and winning them to satan, its that simple. [..or just making big bucks selling people things that are worthless or ego boosters, obviously no deeper satanic purpose here, just plain greed!]

But my point is this, the big, neat, well done productions are working.!!!

So what are you going to do, make flunky little films that look like garbage, that the first time someone sees it they are going to turn it off or go to another channel until they see something that looks interesting??

We are called to sell Jesus, to not only be like Him in life and in the principles of life that we live by [or as Pierre has so well pointed out, showing the love of God, promoting peace among our fellow humans, actually, really, caring about others besides our selves I might ad,] but to find the most effective ways to convince others that it is in their best interests, and will lead to real happiness, to come to Jesus and have their lives changed for the better.

To accomplish this, we are going to have to compete with the media of the world, go head on against them. That is the reality.

The true Christians of the 16th century, had a big challenge on their hands, to go up against the established church and teach the truth about God. the establishment had all of media outlets, at that time the backing of the state, and the pulpits that the people looked to every Sunday to receive spiritual gudance.

But God so arranged history and human events that a new technology emerged at this time that could put the power of mass communication into the hands of even the weak, the movable type printing press.

With that tool the protestants changed the world, and began a radical change in society that grew and is responsible for everything good that has happened since then and made our lives better today!

Today, God has once again made things work out so that technology has put great power into the hands of the weak or powerless, both the computer and digital film camera.

Anyone with the technical skill and artistic ability can produce audio-visual media that is powerful and effective.

Remember the adds on TV years ago showing the former corporate executive who broke away on his own and it had the board of directors of the big corp all worried because this one person was competing so well with them?

It was an ad for Apple computers.

The technical revolution is here my friends, and we can take full advantage of it.

As for justifying bigger budgets, depends on the impact. If a big, let's say GREAT CONTROVERSY film reaches millions around the globe, is it worth it?

Celeste, you just cluster-bombed the entire planet with tons of seed, is that not awesome?

The same goes for building a church meeting place, what is the impact. Mike is partially right, sometimes going simple on this is effective, while sometimes you have to think a little bigger. And if it is practical, in the budget, and has a large enough impact, then go for it.

In our society where we have so many options to have get togethers in cool places, Mike's church or fellowship meeting at a coffee house or what have you, can be really great. I prefer the small personal settings.

I think in the cities we should have small coffee houses, health spas or a combination of this and a small health restaurant, and meet there too, its practical.

......................and we can show Mike's or Celeste's really cool films there too!

[MIke]

Very interesting, I'm not a fan of what you might call traditional evangalism, I think that it's something that has to happen organically on a personal level. I think one of the huge questions for Christian filmmakers would have to be one of budget. I know that if I was ever involved in a "big budget" production I'd have to really question whether the money involved was being used in a wise way. I might be able to make a film for $10 million, but how many children's lives could be saved with that same money in developing countries? How many children could get an education for that amount of money. Off topic a bit, but I ask the same question about building churches, why would we ever really need to build a church. If there's a group why not meet in someone's house, at a coffee shop, a bar (like revolution church). I just think that in general building churches is a massive waste of financial resources. One of those sins of omission, not commission perhaps.

[Pierre Walters]

I like your thoughts; Christians - the label - has become a gross misrepresentation of Christ's message here on earth. Few other labels inspire as much emotional fear and turmoil in the history of the world than Christianity. And ironically, Jesus' twelve disciples weren't each of twelve different denominations. To be like Jesus is to rise above the label of Christianity, just as he rose above the label of Judaism -- we are most like Jesus when we walk with peace, for all mankind, without the drive to label them. Jesus said, in his dying breath, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He didn't label anyone in particular, he said them - all of them. We are part of an amazing energy when we walk with Jesus; I agree with you wholeheartedly that we stir up more negative energy than we realize when we live our lives with a scorecard for conversion. This is not to say that we become complacent and stop ministering, but our message should be of peace and the discovery of God's vast love, instead of the do or die mentality that has become synonymous with the "Christian" talk.

[Nadia]

This is really inspiring, especially your final words. Sometimes I struggle with the idea of being involved in media and more specifically the desire to work with film because I don't know how I'll be able to accomplish what I am supposed to as a Christian in this seemingly secular environment. I don't think I studied Mass Communication for nothing. In truth, I believe this is what God lead me to do. Yet I wonder how I'm going to make a difference, how I'm going to create an impact without 1) compromising my beliefs and 2) getting frustrated because I can't reach people through what I do. But as you said it's not up to us to convert the soul - we simply have to be willing to plant the seeds and allow the Holy Spirit to do the rest. God bless....